Landy Peek (00:00)
Welcome to the Landy Peak Podcast. I'm your host and friend, Landy Peak, and I am thrilled to have you join me. In each episode, we will explore what makes life truly fulfilling. Happiness, deep connections, and self-discovery. Together, we'll uncover that happiness is not a destination, but a way of living. Now, let's dive into today's episode.
Landy Peek (00:32)
Hello there, friends. This is Landy Peak and welcome to this episode of the Landy Peak podcast. We're continuing an incredible series called Me in the Middle. In this series, over the next few weeks, we are going to dive into all those wild and wonderful changes life throws our way in our fabulous 40s.
You know those moments when you look in the mirror and you're not quite sure if you recognize yourself saying, wait, who am I anymore? We're getting into the heart of perimenopause, those sneaky identity shifts or identity crisis, the joys and chaos of parenting and the roller coaster ride of caring for aging parents. I mean, who really warned us about juggling all of these hats at once?
It's like one minute you're conquering the world and the next you're trying to remember why you walked into the room. So why not tackle these challenges together? in each episode, we will talk to an incredible woman just like you who is surviving this crazy time of life.
We'll share a story's advice, a few laughs, possibly a few tears. And
It's all about finding that sweet spot in the middle of this beautiful mess of life.
So get comfy, grab a cup of something delightful, and let's chat like old friends, figuring out this 40s thing together. I'd like to welcome our next guest.
Landy Peek (02:05)
welcome, welcome, Nicole. I am so excited to have you here. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about who you are? Yeah, my name is Nicole, like Landi said, and I currently live in Seattle, Washington, but I'm transitioning to a small mountain town, which I'm very excited about getting back closer to my roots as a small town mountain person. I have two little kids that are four.
and six and when I'm hanging with them and doing all that, I also have my own physical therapy practice that specializes in pregnancy and postpartum support. when I put out that I am looking to speak with people about being me in the middle, you raised your hand and said, I'd love to chat. So can you tell me a little bit about where you are in life and how you perceive yourself as being me in the middle?
Yeah, that's a great question. think I'm like, well, maybe coming out a little bit of the like, middle, I think, I mean, you know, I don't know, you don't know where the middle is, right? Maybe till you're in the middle. I had kids slightly later, around 35 for both of my kids and 41 now. And I think this transition from
Yeah, I I think like so many people that have kids that that experience just kind of like rocks your world and like the best and like the worst ways and, you know, really challenged my identity and self of like sense of self, of course, which were things that were there before, you know, but then the like transition into motherhood, my timing was
unfortunate relative to like the beginning of the pandemic was when my second daughter was born and just like, you know, again, for many of us that created this catalyst to like, look at our lives and figure out what's going on. And yeah, I think, you know, for me, December of 2020, my second was eight months old and like, I just hit rock bottom, you know, and I had this like really vivid
image on New Year's Eve of like me being in the water like drowning and like waves just like drowning and my husband being like, he was a great guy, but being up on this like mountaintop like so far away that he couldn't even like see what was happening. And that was like really I think a turning point for me of realizing this is not sustainable and like it feels really bad.
so that has taken me what now here we are at the end of 2024. That has taken me kind of the last four years has taken me on this journey to figure out you know, really in many ways, like for the first time ever, like who am I really? And I think maybe it was in 2022 that I was sort of like, I am on a quest to like find my authentic self.
And I had peers who were like, what does that even mean? And I was like, I have no idea. But I know that this version of myself is not the version of myself that existed 30 years ago. And so I've sort of been on a journey to kind of figure that out. And I do not have all the answers yet, but I think I am on the right
And I think for me, like, I turned 40, I guess, like a year and a half ago. And, you know, so many people look at turning 40 as this, like, thing to be dreaded. Like, you're over the hill. It's, downhill. And I think, like, that year for me of, like, turning 40 and then sort of on this way was, really one of the best years I've had in a long time. And so I think, like, I may be on the, coming out of the, bottom.
on the upswing of that being stuck in the middle and feeling like, yeah, I'm moving through. I guess I was just sort of inspired to like, you know, it's always helpful to know that you're not going through something alone. And so much of this, I mean, I think the like female experience, but also the like motherhood experience is just like, you know, you're not alone, but it also feels so isolating.
because you sort of think you have to be the only one that's feeling the way that you're feeling. So yeah, that was sort of what got me to hit reply. I love that. And it is. think so many of what we feel are our deepest, darkest secrets are the most common things that people are dealing with. And it's that feeling of, know that little kid motherhood.
where you're feeling so isolated and it is so hard to just get out and do anything and meet anybody and it's overwhelming. And it does really shift and play with your identity and we lose ourselves. And like for me, I let go of all of the things that I really loved and built me up like hobbies. And it just be like, what can I cram in into the little time that I have? self-care is now sitting in the bathroom eating chocolate.
because I don't have any other space to do it. We have kids that are constantly needing attention and we have careers that we're focusing on that are vying for our attention and spouses that we're vying for our attention and external family that's vying for attention and social connections and so many things that it's really easy to forget. And I don't even know what's forget. Like you said, maybe we never even knew.
who we were or who we really are because we get lost in all of this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think there's that. like, it's so much right now is this like, it feels isolating and it's both like, we've created that from a culture from this sense of like independence and like, you know, and as women we're like, well, I can do anything and I can, you know, like we're kind of the first generation really that has like,
I mean, yes, there are still like limitations, but compared to like, you know, our mother's generation, like we have so much opportunity, but there's almost been this whiplash to like, well, I should be able to do it all on my own. And this like reluctance to ask for help and like the isolation just feels like it like breeds this isolation, you know, you don't want to be a burden on somebody. You don't want to like, you know, my mantra for like so long, my husband traveled.
a lot for work just when thankfully when we just had one was like, I can do hard things. You know, and I very much was like, well, yeah, I can, you know, I was single parenting five days a week. And I was like, you know, and people would say like, well, like, how are you doing that? And I was like, well, I can do hard things, you know, and it was like, but that was very much my like, and of course, as I look back, like that's been a mantra for a long time, but just this like, well, I can do it by myself, like,
Should I be doing it by myself? Like, no. But like, am I? Yes, I feel like so many of us women fall into this, like, we don't want to ask for help because it makes us seem weak and, you know, less than, and then it just creates this, like, isolation that we just like, it's like a self perpetuating isolation. And there's so much around like, I don't know, sometimes when I think back to like my childhood and like my mom and like her peers at that time, like,
I don't know. I guess it was like partly the eighties. And of course everything in hindsight looks like better, but it was like, I don't know. They weren't sober, like as attached to like sleep schedules and like, you know, we'd, I'd fall asleep, I think like at a very young age, like at my like friend's house, but really it was my mom's best friend's house because like they were hanging out and there was just this like, you know, like they just didn't, I don't know, whatever it was.
And I guess was like, it grew up in like a small town and not in the city. But like, I remember talking, like messaging a friend and being like, you are literally three blocks away. And we were both just like sitting in our houses, feeling lonely by ourselves. don't know why didn't one of us just be like, I'm coming over with my baby and like they'll fall asleep. You know, let me bring the little sleep space for them. I'll bring the pack and play and like, let's hang out, you know, but you know, I think there's, there's so many layers to that, makes it feel like,
so isolating and like such a loss of like, then we're doing it on our own. And it like then takes us farther away from like other people and like connections. And I don't know where I got on that tangent, but I don't know. I just feel like there's this like independence has sort of gotten the better, like the better of us over this like in our generation a little bit. I completely agree. And I can see myself as you're describing it and definitely felt it where
I like you have that mentality of, I can do hard things. I have said that many, many times. I have pushed myself through things and it's almost a badge of honor if I don't ask for help. If I prove that I can do this, then there is something validating about it, but there isn't. I can really hard all by myself.
and nobody said, oh my gosh, Landy, you did it all by yourself. Congratulations. There's no pat on the back. I just got really, really tired and more isolated. And I can see it even in my own personal marriage relationship, looking at, I can do it and I will push and make sure that I'm the one doing it and don't ask. Even though I know if I ask, I will receive help.
And that is something that I have worked on and shifted somewhat, it is not supportive and it's not helpful in any way, shape or form, but it is definitely something that I have pushed. Yeah. And then it just actually creates resentment because you're like, why am I doing this all on my own? Like, I want my partner to help. But then you're sort of like, but I can do it on my own. And like, it's almost like you're proving to yourself, but also like somehow proving to your spouse that like,
you don't need them. I don't know. It's just such a weird thing. I mean, I remember forever ago, one of the things that stood out from the time that we worked together was this, I want you, but I don't need you. And just how profound. And I've sort of pulled that into other, with other relationships, but also other things of, well, I want this thing, but I don't need it. And just shifting that.
perspective had been just like really helpful for me and this like, okay, and then there's some things that you're like, I don't need this and I actually don't want it. You know, and like that's like really great clarity to I mean, I remember having like, you know, in a like an acquaintance relationship that I was like, I actually don't want this. Like, I definitely don't need it. I don't want it. And like, you know, I think that's part of this like,
realization of like, also, like that you can say no to things. And there's so much of that out there right now of like, you know, just say no to the party, just say no to like the things, but then like, saying no to the things that like, you know, is are going to upset somebody else too, or like someone's response is going to be like, you know, I can't believe you're not volunteering for the PTA or like whatever it is. And it's like, I, yeah, I just don't want to do that. And like,
you know, and then people judge you for those things, but just being like, it's just like, so I've kind of come back to that, like, well, I actually don't want this and I don't need it. And then like other things like, but can I do art in my son's classroom? Like, yeah, I can, I can do that. Like I want, do I need to do it? No, but do I want, like, does my son really care if I never came to his classroom? No, but do I want to do it? Like, yeah. And so that's been like just a fun,
helpful way for me to get out of this sort of martyrdom that we put ourselves in of like, I'm doing all the things and I have to do all the things to be whatever, the best mom, but like can't be a good mom if I'm doing all the things. And that's huge. We can't be good at whatever we want to do if we're doing things. And I love have used that. I want it, but I don't need it in all aspects of your life.
I don't want this and I don't need this. That is definitely a no. Right. We need to normalize, I don't want to. And that's okay. Because we get that feeling of judgment and pressure that, my gosh, I really don't want to do this, but you know, that guilt trip into, end up doing it and it drains our energy. I love that, how you've reframed it. And we used it together in a relationship sense. Yes, yep.
but it does apply in so many different areas. And so, you know, for the listener at home, being able to hold something and really look at it and saying, do I want this and do I need this? And we looked at this as separation, way to separate out, you know, those feelings of want and need. And it's a great tool to really hold in your hand and say, do I want this and do I need this? And if I don't want it I don't need it, let's let it go. I love that.
Yeah, yeah. Art in your son's classroom. yes, yay, because I'm doing the same. I want to do art on Fridays, because it's fun and it's easy. And it brings me joy, but I don't attend any PTA meetings. Yeah, yeah. And I think that was like also one of these other things too, like I've had this story of like, I'm not artistic and I'm not creative and like, but like, I like doing those things.
And so I was like, well, yeah, I can look up online and find like a craft project to take into the first grade class. And then it's fun. And it's like so cool to see kids create. then I get a little bit of they're like, oh, how are they creating things? it's just fun to watch their process and stuff too, before they get all these stories. And that's it. Because it is incredible. And it is so fun. And I have a first grader and a fourth grader.
And definitely between first grade and fourth grade, we have picked up a lot of stories. Yeah. Huge in how stifling those stories are. And I don't know how to protect my younger one from getting those. think that's part of growing and our human journey. But it's fun to be in that atmosphere with little kids who are just really explorative and creative and really don't care.
what other people are gonna think. And it brings me at least that same kind of energy as I leave that first grade classroom. I also have first grade son in this like creative energy of, my gosh, that's really fun. And it was messy. And we had a lot of, know, loud and all of these different things that just got to be. And I've lucked out with my son having a first grade teacher that really supports all of that. So I really go crazy and she's like, this is awesome. Let's do this. Yeah, it's fun.
Cool. It is fun. So as you have looked, I really am interested in, if you're okay with it, diving more into this isolation, because I think we feel it early in motherhood, but also in the different stages as we're going, as I am hitting perimenopause, definitely going, my gosh, all of these things that are happening, like I was the only one.
until I started talking to friends. And then they're like, yeah, that's me too. And there is this shift age-wise that happens as well as perimenopause And I'd love to talk about more of that isolation, because I think you hit on a really important topic. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting that you say that because like, you know, I think again, it's sort of like early, like parenthood is this like,
flashlight onto something that was already there. like, the tendrils of that were there before. Like if I think back, you know, into my, it's like we moved to Seattle like 12 years ago. So just like, if I think back, so we've lived here for a good chunk of time before we had kids and then a good chunk of time after. you know, if you think back to it's like, well, what did I do with my friends? Like what were those relationships like? And like,
you know, there's like, was a lot of like going out to eat and of course, like a lot of like enjoying really delicious cocktails. And then like, you know, for us, like we, had another subset of like women that I would run with, you know, of course, like after work at like 7pm and you know, and like that was where a lot of my like, relationship was built from and a little bit of just like, we spent a lot of time together, probably the addition of alcohol, like, you know, a little bit of like social lubricant and then
But as I've transitioned, right, a little bit of the like, okay, what were my hobbies? Like those were kind of my hobbies, like eating out and like drinking good drinks and like moving my body and like being outdoors and stuff like, and then that, but if I really think about those relationships, like there was some depth to them, but they weren't like super deep, right? Like if I think back, like the first, when I first got pregnant, I didn't tell anybody, right? Because like,
those relationships didn't feel like safe spaces to share that. And so I think that there was like, I mean, love those people to death. Like I actually probably still have a connection with some of them, but there was this like lack of depth, I think, or at least in like what I want now and what I think of. And then we like go through this super isolating time and then you meet people who are, whose kids go to your same preschool who, know, like, so you meet other
women whose kids are going through the same thing. And then yes, we're connecting, but at least in my experience, it's been, and I've met some lovely, wonderful humans, so not to diminish those relationships, but so much of them is like, it's like three years down the road and I'm like, I have no idea what she does for work, right? All we do is honestly get together and we talk about our kids, and then there's a little bit of this like,
bitchfest about like our partners, and them not showing up the way that we want to do. Yeah. And that's sort of it. And like, so now for me, at least, like, I'm like, I'm still on a chat thread with like, a lot of these women and like, we connect, but we connect over our kids. And I think like, this next piece of isolation that like, I'm currently feeling as like, I sleep more and I my kids have a little more independence. And I'm like, starting to come out of that, like really needy younger kids stage is like,
I want like a space that I can like feel safe in and like held in and supported in for like all the like deep, dark, ugly, like both everything from like the weird things that are happening in my body to also like the emotional stuff that I'm going through. And, and I sort of find myself in this space of like feeling isolated again, because the people that are in my life, because of course those friends from before kids that we like
did big hikes and went out to restaurants, like those relationships have fizzled because like I can't, I'm not doing those things anymore. And we moved to opposite sides of the city and like, that's a barrier, right? So like that has sort of moved into the background. My current relationships are all about our kids and really honestly like really disempowering circumstances because there's so much stress and angst and unhappiness around
kids and partner and then work is another piece for people that come in. But then that's like all we're talking about, you know, like we go to dinner and it's like, people just take turns and in some ways it often becomes this like one upmanship of like, well, your husband did that. Well, mine did this, you know, and of course, like we laugh and as you look like retrospectively and we were sharing the stories, like they're so ludicrous and ridiculous and you know, and so there is that like,
genuine connection around that, but then there isn't anything underneath that. And that's not just a fault to the other women or to myself. It's just that like, that is what we were so entrenched in that like, we don't actually know anything about each other as people, as individuals, like outside of this identity. And so like, I'm finding myself in this place of like really craving
what I am labeling as like sisterhood because somehow to me that feels like deeper and more profound than, I don't know, like something else. But this like, you know, as I've gone through this like moving the idea, it's like, you know, some I can't always just say to my husband, like, I am terrified. And like I, or I don't like the way that you're like, when he's, I mean, I feel very grateful that
I can talk to him about pretty much anything, because thank God he's been doing his own inner work too. But like, I need somebody else. Like we're not meant to live in isolation. And so I think like, I'm now into this like next layer of isolation. Like there are people in my world and I love them and care for them, but like, I want something more. And that is a new form of like isolation, I guess. I love that.
perspective, that it's a new form of isolation because there is a lot to what you're saying. And I feel that and see that in my own life. As we have gone in little groups, I look back as you're taking us back to your past. I'm also looking at my past and I have had a few set friends that I have gone deeper, but for the majority of those relationships, they were very situational. And situational, could talk.
about the situation, whether it's work, whether it's grad school, whatever it is, we can really bond over that. But once that situation is no longer there, then those friendships just fizzle. And then we go on to the next situation around being in the mommy and me things. And again, as you're going, I don't know what all of those people, like the inner workings of those people's lives. And there was a...
pretty strong set of mommies and me's with my daughter that we all had a first baby and then we had our second and many of them went on to have third, but we did everything together, but it was very superficial. We're talking about kids, we're talking about the complaints of kids, the struggles with kids, sleep and eating and whatever it is. And then there's that parent layer that comes in. And as I have shifted to school age kids, it is now that same superficial friends.
that we're talking about the school-age stuff, but there's very few of those deeper connections. Our partners are not meant to be, we're not meant to be for our partners, everything. We're not meant to be that sole relationship that supports all of the emotional needs. I don't think that's healthy for anyone. And I just know in my personal relationship, that doesn't work. Totally, yeah.
the more voices in there. And yes, like you, I can go a lot of places with my husband pretty much anywhere, but that's not necessarily saying that that's healthy for us to go in there. He doesn't love in-depth chats over whatever I want to go in depth with. My bestie will go with me there. And so we need that person that's thinking in the same way that I am that will go into the deep thing.
and doesn't mind tears and all of that good stuff. So it's really fascinating how you brought up all of our situational relationships and that I'm like you feeling isolated in that search for that deeper relationship, in that really being able to fill that deeper need, have those deeper level conversations where we can really show our authentic selves.
One of the reasons I love the work that you and I do when we're working with humans is because in our work we can go deep, but it's not for us. Like, it's sitting in a space where it's okay to go deep, even though you and I don't get to go deep while we're sitting with clients. And that is isolating. And it's fascinating thing for me as, like, I hadn't really looked at where I am in life and all the situations and how isolating it can be.
Yeah, yeah, and you know, and there's like, those people aren't superficial, we're all doing the same thing. And of course, then as you're saying this, I'm like, okay, and I've thought about this before, like how...
How do you make that shift? Right? Like within a peer group that exists, right? So like, I have a group that I get together with once a month, we go out to dinner. We have been together since our first, sort of like you, first kids were born. And like, I left one of those dinners being like, feeling really just like, that was not energizing at all. You know, and this, a little bit of this like, okay, but they're just like we've said, like we all think that we're like the only one who's experiencing that.
But maybe everyone else sitting on that table was also in this same and whether they've identified where they are on that journey, feeling the same thing. But then it feels so vulnerable and a little bit of scary. to be like, OK, well, how do you then take? These are people that I enjoy spending time with, but I don't. I'm over the let's just.
sort through our stresses and our problems. Like, let's go deeper into these stresses and problems. But this like, how do you take what you already have? Because I'm on one hand, I'm like, well, where do I find these people? How do I find these people that want to go deeper? And it's like, well, maybe they're in front of me. But then how do I? And this is like a question I haven't figured out is like, what is a safe way to like, explore like, does this group of people that I are that we already create space for each other once a month? Like, can we
go deeper, right? And like, of course, it's like, everyone's on their own journey. And some people are at a space where they're like, actually, no, you know, whether they like, consciously or subconsciously, or just like, I can't go there. Like, I'm hanging on by a thread, but like, I don't want to open Pandora's box, you know, versus the people that are like, Yeah, let's go a little deeper, you know, so it's just sort of an interesting time. Because I'm like, I don't know, do I need to join some like,
some women's circle that someone else is creating, but then also how do I fit that into my life? Because I still like these other, know, so it's just this really interesting space of like, I don't know. And a couple of times I've been like, well, what if I just open up about myself and see how that lands? And for the most part, it's landed with crickets, you know? And I'm like, okay, all right, well, I just cracked the door a little bit.
And in this moment, which doesn't mean that those people aren't ready to go there, that was not where they want to go. You know, we're at a restaurant, like there's people at this point, I'm like, I could cry in this restaurant. And like, I actually don't give a shit. But like, not everybody's there. Right. And I appreciate and don't fault anyone for that. But it's sort of this interesting, like, OK, if you want to go deeper, like where, where, where does one go? Right. Like a little bit of like. And I think that's a little bit of this like place that I'm at is like
Do I, I don't know, where do I go? Like how do I move through this like phase and like, we're gonna move. And so like, I don't wanna end up just in these friendships again that are just because our kids happen to be in the same class or play on the same sports team. Like, you know, sometimes I think that can be an opportunity to meet. It is an opportunity to meet, but then making that intentional choice of like, do I want to, like, do we connect in a way that makes me want to?
go deeper and prioritize time with you? Or am I happy to like chit chat with you on the sidelines of the hockey rink, but like, we don't need to, I don't need to make more time, you know, it's just sort of this interesting, like, but I totally feel it. And I feel like you have taken the tactic of just opening up. And there are times I have found one person in the last
probably three years, that was one of those situational things. know, our kiddos were in preschool together and they were great friends. So we hung out because the boys were friends. And I really liked her and we started talking more, but it probably was two years into the relationship before it started shifting into, wait, let's talk about, and I think it was an offhand, I'm trying to go back, an offhand comment by one of us.
in like the whole perimenopause thing. And my gosh, and I'm like, yes, we're both in this same space. Let's talk about this, which took us away from talking about kids and husbands and into a little bit more. And our relationship has developed into something deeper where we can talk about a lot more, but it still has its situational type, you know, boundaries there.
where it's interesting to look at. how do we find those? Because we are both craving it. How do we find deeper level friends? How do we go into a deeper level conversation with the people that we are in situational relationships with? I have a last year in kindergarten, we had this really awesome room mom group and I loved them and we did a ton of stuff together But this year, none of our kids are in the same class.
we don't meet and we'll pass each other at pickup and drop off yet none of us text or call. And so those relationships have fizzled just because the situation has changed. And I definitely, as I look at them, they could be people that I could go deeper. So how do we shift into that? And it's an unknown unanswered question. Shift into creating that when if you and I am probably the listener,
is also feeling that craving and probably your situational friends, how do we broach that topic? How do we shift into there? How do we open up the doors? Even if we're opening up ourselves, it doesn't necessarily mean time and space in place. It's gonna be reciprocated. And sometimes there's that like shock of, we've changed the game here. And we're used to talking about this. And we've talked about this for the last, you know, kids and husbands and whatever.
And now you wanna go deeper? I think there's some catching up in people that we have to do as well and rebalance, recalibrate our friendship. Right, yeah. And I think also just as you're listening to you talk, is like, yeah, there's also so much value in these more situational friendships and relationships. then just that, it's really two people. I'm not asking for like...
a group of 10 women, you know, right? Like it's really like, you know, it's that like, and for me, it's a little bit of like, when I'm having a hard day, I want to be able to like message somebody. And you know, then it's interesting, like, and this is certainly my own personal story of like, that I run into, like, do I have people that like, maybe I'm not willing to open the door with them, because I'm afraid of how they're going to perceive
me opening the door. Like I have this story of both like I am either too much or not enough. Right? So there's this like, and then so like if I, you know, like I have thankfully like at this point, it's taken some work to get here because when, but like at this point, like my husband and my relationship is like super strong. But so then it's like, well, I can't reach out to ex friend about a challenge I'm having around my partner because my relationship is
in their mind and of course, like a little bit of mine is like too good or like compared to theirs is better. And so there's this like, and of course this is part, like I said, like my inner story or like, I work, you know, functionally from an hour standpoint, I work like part time, right? So then it's almost like I can't relate to the mom who's like working in high tech and working 50 hours a week. But also I can't quite connect with the stay at home mom because like,
I'm still working, so I'm not available in the same way. So there's all of these like, and of course, you know, so much of that is kind of like an excuse, but there's also this like these layers of like, well, how do I connect with that person who's in a different situation or like, I feel like they're judging my situ, you know, there's just like so much of that that's like, of course, my own stories as it intersects with someone else's own stories. And I think like, for me, that's part of what like gets in the way too of feeling like,
Well, I can't like share that I'm like feeling super scared about this move because my friend is like really upset that we're moving, right? So like, feel like I can't talk to her about that because, or like that we're gonna buy a new house, like because that's a privilege that like they don't have, you know, so there's just like, there's so many layers and I think that it's like so easy to get stuck in those layers too, which just like fuels the isolation.
It really does. And it would be a lovely place if we could just meet human to human and be able to accept where each person is with their stories, with the differences in our life. Because there is in this life stage that you and I are in, as moms who do work part time, there is this weird balance of I'm not as flexible and available as the stay at home moms, but I am more flexible and available than the moms that work full, full time.
And so just trying to like connect with someone, you know, as I'm going through my own social network, going like one of the women that I absolutely love, she works full, full time, drops her kids off at, you know, daycare before school, picks them up at daycare after school. I absolutely adore her. But just scheduling, when can we connect? Because then it's ends and we're both trying to juggle weekends and kids and activities and partners and doing things.
and it becomes this really rare thing that schedules a line, you know, as you look at it and oh, four months from now, I have this time available, does that work for you? And that's not a way that we can build relationships. And so we end up having a text relationship, which is fun and fine, but it also isn't filling that deeper level need, need in-person connection. And there is something about, you know, having some social network
by a text, by a, you know, online, however we wanna do it. But that personal connection, I think is really big. And we're not looking for 10 women. It's looking at one or two people that we can really connect with and really open with and be ourselves. It's not even like I wanna, you know, go into deep level stuff. I just wanna be me and not have to worry about that you're gonna judge. you're, what are you gonna think?
I want that same level of like what I have with my husband where it can be like, okay, I'm gonna say something weird or do something weird and you're gonna, okay. And just go with it. And not gonna be an issue in the relationship. Those are those really special relationships and the situational ones don't necessarily have that comfort level. Right, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, it's a journey. I don't know.
But I think like just even as we're talking about it's like, at least I'm not the only one, right? Like that's, you know, and then you're like, cause then maybe you're just like, who knows? Maybe this podcast is an opportunity for someone to like share it with a friend. And then they're like, maybe we, you know, just like that, like, how do you plant that seed both like within, you know, as I think about for myself, like, well, how do I plant the seed like within my peer group of like, I'm kind of looking for someone who wants to go a little bit deeper. Like I don't.
you know, it's, and just like starting to plant those seeds of people that already have enough overlap, like, it like reminds me of this, I don't know, there's an article like forever ago, then it was talking about like relationships, and it was talking about one of the like keystones of developing close relationships is like frequent random interactions. And like, that's like, if you think back to college, like how you made friends, because you were in the cafeteria at the same time, you lived on the same floor, like you didn't necessarily make
And I think maybe that's part of where we get so stuck right now is that like everything has to be planned. so we don't, depending on where you live, certainly, like, and even in our like neighborhood in the city, we do have like some frequent random interactions, but it's like just not quite enough. And like, I think about when I moved, when I moved as like, sort of like after grad school and as an adult, like,
you sort of like run into someone at the gym and then you're like, like we're at the same restaurant and you sort of end up with these like random frequent interactions. And like that is a big part of like, at least what this article said, and I sort of feel like there's a lot of truth to that. That is where you start to build connection because you don't have to make a plan. And I think that's where we get stuck a little bit now in this, like in the way we are raising our kids and the culture that we're in.
is that we don't have opportunities for frequent random interactions. We don't all shop at the same grocery store because we live in a city and I'm going to go to the one that's two blocks from my house and you're going to go the one. So you don't. And I grew up in a small town where there was a post office. You didn't get mail delivered to your house. And people went to the bank. We just went and did things. So you'd run into people at the bank, at the post office, at the grocery store. And those
And then maybe you run into them at like a kid's event, like those frequent random interactions, I think like are so valuable. And we've sort of structured our lives in a way that like we don't have those opportunities anymore. And I think that there's something to that that is like, I don't know, part of the secret sauce maybe is that like, but how do you create that? don't know. But just that, that piece of things is like, we're all bonding on this shared experience, right? And everyone knows that like,
hardship and also the like good experiences creates relationship, but you need something more than just that. It's like we're trying to just bond on hardship and that's like not enough in and of itself, you know? There are so many little ah-hahs in what you said.
in those frequent random interactions in how so much of our younger lives, that was how we ended up socializing because we ended up in the same place in space and it's like, let's carry on. And the freedom of not having to plan and the freedom of having more flexibility where now we're in the space where we have work and partners and kids.
and all of these different scheduled things that we are working around, it's really hard to do the random, you know, let's go do something. And we have a neighbor that's really good back and forth about, you know, want to go get ice cream. And we try, but it's still that text of, do you wanna? And then like I got one the other day and I was like, yes, except for.
Then it's like six o'clock at night that they want to go. And then it interrupts the kid's bed and dinner. And do I feed them before or after? And there were so many thoughts around this simple text of, you want to go get ice cream with us? That it takes away that spontaneity. It should have been. And it would have been when I was 20, either yes or no. It wouldn't have been like, this stuff that I think about through this, like, let's just go do something. And how many times does it just feel too much?
to even try to just go do something. And I think there's so much in that random interaction that we just really gives us more foundation to build. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it was interesting, you just said that like came to me, I had this realization, I don't know, a few months ago that like, I spent the first like, more or less the last six years in a role of like, crisis mitigation and risk management. That like, ultimately, that is what
being a mother slash parent is these days. And especially for me, who's someone who's type A, I'm like, there is this, just like you just walked through, okay, can we go get ice cream? Well, no, if I don't feed them dinner and all they eat is ice cream, then it's like this, we're trying so hard to avoid the meltdown. And we're trying so hard to preserve any small amount of time, especially as it relates to bedtime or nap time that we may have to ourselves, but we like,
At least for me, found like I have spent so much time trying to avoid the meltdown, which actually like usually happens regardless of what I actually did, if I think about it. But that we're in this, like we've taken any spontaneity even out of our own day to day because we're like, I can't do that. It's going to disrupt their schedule or I can't do that because if they don't eat this thing or like, no, we can't go to that restaurant with you because my kid doesn't like anything that's to eat there. And like, but largely what we're trying to do is avoid the meltdown.
Right. And then if I like really think about it, like we're trying to avoid the meltdown because the meltdown doesn't make us feel good. Right. And there's so many layers that like, right. There's like the failing as a mother, like, they having to melt down because I didn't feed them. And therefore, of course, like that's my fault or like, you know, but there's all of this. And then like, it doesn't feel good to watch your kid melting down. And what are you going to do about that? But like, I haven't, I've been trying to be better about like being like, I don't know, whatever happens is going to happen. And I'm like,
There's so much of this, like we're trying to avoid the uncomfortable feelings for ourselves really. And we're like saying it's about our kids and their sleep and their needs, but it's so much about like us. like we got, my daughter's preschool had a party that went, but it was scheduled for a preschool from six to nine. And I was like, this is bananas. Like, but I was like, okay, like we're gonna go. Like we've never maybe one other time, like gone to an event.
on purpose that was not scheduled to end until 9 p.m. And like, yeah, that is way after bedtime. And like, but it was like, I mean, I don't know the parent that scheduled this. Like, I'm not sure what they were thinking, but clearly they have a little bit bigger risk tolerance than I do because they were like, this is when we're scheduling this event for, you know? And so it just made me think like, and we went to the party and it was great. And we stayed until almost nine o'clock. And, know, and of course at eight o'clock, I'm like, we should really go.
Like we need to get home. And then our kids were like all of a sudden having a great time. And it was like, all right, we're going to stay. And like, was bedtime any worse than it normally is? No, it was the same. But if anything, it was a little easier because they were more tired. But like, I think that's also part of this, like a layer of this isolation is we're so afraid of like doing it wrong or like creating this tantrum because we're like, God, what am I going to do when that happens? That that probably gets in the way of our ability to just be like, yeah, sure.
I'll do this thing that doesn't meet our family schedule, right? but it's just interesting to think about. I think it's huge. maybe there are parents out there that do have that, that are way more flexible than it sounds what you are and I am in risk mitigation. I love that because there is an, am one that I protect bedtime like crazy because
I know about myself, I need my time alone and with my partner at the end of the night. And I'm gonna take that time no matter what. So if we are delayed in bedtime, that means that I'm pushed back in taking my time, then I don't go to sleep till late, then it keeps rolling. And there's also that worry of like, my gosh, and then the kids are gonna be cranky, and we're gonna have to deal with this, and if we're in a public setting.
all of those different things come in. And maybe, I think you're right, we're really trying to avoid the discomfort for ourselves, but how can we lean into that discomfort? things like going to ice cream when it's like six o'clock and I should be putting on dinner instead, we're like, okay, we're just gonna roll with it. And going to the party and saying, okay, we're just gonna roll with it. How do we get into more space of leaning into the discomfort?
and saying, we're just gonna roll with it.
but maybe we can lean into the discomfort and at least question the discomfort. Why am I so resistant to doing this? And is there the reward more than the risk? And there are definitely times where we have leaned into it.
And it has been a giant tantrum that we're hauling screaming kids home and it's like, my gosh, why do we do this? We're never doing this again. And there are times where, yeah, they're really exhausted and they're gonna go to bed really easy. Right. But you never know what situation is coming. Right. Like that's the hard part to sit with is you're like, it could go terribly and it could go really well. And like, can I sit with it?
if it goes terribly, right? That's, you know, I mean, that's the human experience, trying to avoid being uncomfortable. Exactly. And I think it's coming to, in this moment, can I sit with that if it goes terribly? If there's a yes, then like roll with it. Right. And if you're like, I can't, I don't have capacity. I had a hard day at work. Like I can't do that. Then like, yeah, that's. It's okay to say no. okay to say Yeah. Right. I think just being okay with where we are and being with whatever choice we make.
I think like
you shared before we got on is this happiness curve and that there is a, just acknowledging that there is a time, my husband and I have talked about this, there is a time that your relationship is going to not be good, right? And just there is this time and that there is isolation, that there is transition, that there is, but just trying to like...
you know, and, you know, easier said than done always, but this like, okay, what if we just leaned into like accepting that like, yeah, it's go, you know, both the balance of like, yeah, it's gonna feel isolating and like, that's okay, but I'm gonna come out the other side, right? I think that's, that's like the desperation is where certainly I found myself get stuck of like, I'm never gonna have that again. And just like, leaning into like, yeah, it's gonna happen.
you know, for how long and at what intensity and what degree, but if like, we can just like trust that it's like gonna be okay, that you're going that like, you know, and even as I say that, that like, I'm going to find these people to connect with that, like, what if I just ride this wave of like feeling a little isolated, then it doesn't feel so scary, right? I think that is incredibly powerful in that there are going to be times in our relationships that suck.
that are really hard, that are not fun. And there are going to be times in our relationships that are really good and we're gonna feel really connected in all relationships. And that part of the human experience in that ebbs and flows. And I think what I really picked up, which really lit up in my head was that desperation is where you really feel stuck. Because those moments where I'm really feeling that desperation to change whatever.
I want it to change now. I want the deep relationships now. I want whatever it is now. That's where I feel the most stuck, the most anxious. And we can either sit with that or lean into it, which may then topple into a shift of somehow. But even if we sit with it, it's going to ebb and flow and something's going to change. That's part of our existence is things are going to change. And I love just
giving yourself the space to say, I'm really uncomfortable right now. And it's going to change. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for this amazing conversation. I absolutely loved talking with you.
I want to say thank you so much for joining.
Landy Peek (52:22)
Hey, before you go, just a little bit of legal. This podcast is designed for educational purposes only. It is not to replace any expert advice from your doctors, therapists, coaches, or any other professional that you would work with. It's just a chat with a friend, me, where we get curious about ideas, thoughts, and things that are going on in our lives. And
As we're talking about friends, if you know someone who would benefit from the conversation today, please share because I think the more that we open up these conversations, the more benefit we all get. until next time, give yourself a big hug from me and stay curious because that's the fun in this world.
