Landy Peek (00:00)
Welcome to the Landy Peak podcast. I'm your host and friend, Landy Peak, and I am thrilled to have you join me. In each episode, we will explore what makes life truly fulfilling, happiness, deep connections, and self-discovery. Together we'll uncover that happiness is not a destination, but a way of living. Now let's dive into today's episode.
Landy Peek (00:31)
Hello there and welcome to the Landy Peak podcast. This is your host and friend, Landy Peak, and I am so thrilled you are here today. Today we have a truly special guest. Anna Suri is on a mission to help people, women in particular, feel at home in their own bodies, let go of self-doubt, and embrace themselves with kindness and confidence.
if you've ever struggled with body image or felt like you weren't enough, this conversation is for you. Ana's approach is all about self-love, breaking free from unrealistic beauty standards and finding joy in who you are right now. So grab a cozy drink, get comfy and let's dive in.
Landy Peek (01:26)
Anna. Welcome to the Landy Peak podcast. Would you please tell listeners a little bit about you so we can know you a little bit better? Thank you so much, Landy. Thanks so much for having me. It's actually really exciting. I was thinking about that this is...
my first podcast interview that I've done in over a year. And I used to do a lot of them. So it's actually really exciting. And I was just feeling into it and going, I love these conversations. And I love the exchange and the things that arise. So I'm really looking forward to chatting with you. So my name is Anna. I am an intuitive eating and body image coach. I mean, this is obviously one thing of who I am. It's always such a big question, you know.
Who are you and what do you do? But basically my passion and where I feel really drawn to is supporting women in uncovering their true sense of worth and value in this lifetime that's not tied to their appearance, which is a huge mission. It's a huge topic because we're so conditioned from a very young age.
believe, especially as women, course, now men too, but to believe that who we are is our body and what we look like. And so much pain comes from that belief. So much resource, energy, money, time is invested into that belief. And so, yeah, I feel really pulled in that area to help women uncover.
the truth of who they really are. I that. And it's important. I mean, it is such a pervasive thing for humans, I think, in how much media and how much, you know, just in society that we are constantly focusing on our outer appearance and constantly wondering about that judgment that we have from the outside world. And one of the things that you just mentioned was body shame.
And I would love to dive into your take on how we're shaming ourselves around our own bodies.
Yeah, big question. I always love to give this example of, and this is not my original thought. I got this from a wonderful book and I can give some resources at the end of this conversation. But basically this image of when you're a little child, maybe you're one or two and you're just playing on the beach naked. You're just having the best time. You don't care about your round belly and your chubby thighs. You're so absorbed.
in what you're doing in the play, you're very present, you're so happy and embodied. And you don't look around and go, I wonder what this woman over there sitting on the towel, she's looking at me. I wonder what she thinks about my body. We don't even have that concept yet. It only happens later when we maybe witness our caretakers, how they speak about themselves or when we watch movies or when we're bullied at school for maybe.
looking differently to our peers that we start to connect this piece of, my appearance means something. You know, people notice that there is a difference. And I'm noticing because there is a difference, people don't treat me the same. So clearly there must be something wrong with me. I'm not part of the core group, but I'm not being included in something or my mom is telling me I need to eat less because I'm not.
thin enough or I'm going to ballet dancing and I don't fit into the tutu like the other girls, right? There's so many examples which make us stand out from our, our group, our clan. And so of course we have this inherent biological need to belong in order to be safe. And so of course that biology drives us from a very young age that we want to be, we want to be part of the group. And so I think that's
where the shaming can start where we realize, I'm not part of the group. People are pointing out as to why from their perspective. So there's clearly something wrong with me. We never ask, what might be wrong with them? Of course. And as a child, we don't have that kind of concept, understanding. And then into adulthood, yeah, there's just this, think for a lot of people, this sense that we just walk around with this,
constant, it's like this underlying current of, I'm, my body's just never good enough. It's never good enough. And then we might have these sort of spikes, you know, where we see ourselves in a mirror and we get some feedback and that can be really triggering or we putting on some pants that don't fit anymore, or we walk on the beach past a younger, thinner woman and we compare. So it's just this ongoing thread throughout.
most of our lives that a lot of people don't even untangle from or cut ties with to be free from that. So I think that the body shame piece runs so, deep for a lot of people. I think you're right. There is, and when you tapped into what we're getting from the outside world of we're different, we're made fun of, it all gets internalized to what is wrong with me. There's something inherently wrong with me.
And it is such a huge belief for so many humans. Yes. And, you know, I, um, I see this so much with the clients I've worked with so many times, it stems from their relationship with their mother who, um, my comment, you know, the mother usually has her own issues going on and it's projected onto her child, but it's kind of this, I mean, our core
Safety person, you know, that's our protector, that's showing us what love is, shames us. no, you need to, you need to lose weight. that's not looking very nice. Let's put you on the scale. Let's go to Weight Watchers. I mean, you know, all of these stories I've heard. no, you're not, you're not eating what your brother's eating cause you, you're too chubby. it's, it's heartbreaking. It is. Hmm. It really is. And as,
Like as I'm thinking through my own experiences, there are so many like, yes, watching, you know, I grew up in that very much diet culture and watching my mom diet and my grandmother diet and the restrictions on food. You know, I definitely picked up that. And then just culturally what a body should look like. And then as a parent where I'm really conscious around body.
that struggle and the words that are coming out of my mouth. As you said that I still know I will say things trying to be helpful that are not around my daughter's body, but maybe around her education, maybe around her study habits that are a little bit more like, ooh, I want you to do this. You should do this different. You should do this better. And I understand that like maybe that's coming from a place of wanting to help. But if you flip the scripts,
and you're the person that's receiving it and having been that person that has received that more critical guidance, it is hard because we internalize it at such a young age. And so I don't want people blaming their parents because just like you said, they're having their own struggles. They had their own like filters that they're seeing through the world that have based on their experiences. They have been shamed themselves.
And they are trying the best that they can with the skills that they have. I'm trying the best that I can with the skills that I have, knowing I'm still messing up, knowing I still say things that come out of my mouth. And I'm like, Ooh, I wish I hadn't said that. I know what that's going to do internally. And it's so interesting to be in this middle space where I am parenting and I'm also have been parented and hear it and have also struggled with my own body issues. Cause I don't think I
was really confident in my body until I hit my 40s. Because there was that always comparison game. There was that, I have that little pooch. And there was that, know, like, she's like, have, you know, whatever that you're comparing this person to and that person to. And it's a constant background. It's, know, when you walk in a room, it's this comparison game that you're going on internally. How do I measure up? Am I okay? Will I be accepted?
And you're pinpointing how it happens. And I think that is so incredible as you're talking about. It's just naturally happening for a child and then how we internalize those words.
Yeah, that's right. It's very powerful. It is very powerful. And so with body shaming, what can we do? where's the next step?
Yeah, where's the next step? And I think, you know, there is obviously that sent that statement of there is no one answer for, you know, one set answer for every individual. It's a very unique process for every person depending on their experience, their life journey, their traumas, where they grew up, all of that kind of thing.
But I think a good place to start always is the educational piece because a lot of the times we don't even know what's going on. you know, just because it's so normal, feels so normal. And I hear this so many times just when I'm somewhere and I hear conversations, when I read a book or when you watch a movie, it's just everywhere. And we, unless we were made aware that it's.
not right and that it's dysfunctional, it's harmful. We don't even know that it's happening. So I think the first step is just questioning, I have all of these beliefs about bodies, about myself. I constantly put myself down. I have this constant tape in the background. It's so automatic, isn't it? I mean, even me, I've been, you know, myself, healing myself for the last seven years and worked with a lot of people around these topics.
And I would consider myself having a lot of awareness around this, but even I catch myself sometimes still when I'm meeting someone, I look at their bodies and it's just this automatic, where do I fit in compared to this person? Right. and I mean, I catch it so fast and go, okay, no, no, no, you're meeting the person. You're not meeting the body. Who is this person? Not who is this body, but it's just so deep that.
I think that awareness piece is just the first step to, you know, to making a change in our own lives. so that we, we just start to notice where these thoughts are. Here's another one. there you are. yeah, I know you, you're familiar. here I am and comparing myself. here I am again, putting myself down because I, you know, something's wobbling or I'm in the change room and I'm about to have a meltdown.
because the lights are so intense and I just can't take it. yeah, here I am. I've been here a million times before. Hmm. Maybe it's not meant to be this way. What if it wasn't meant to feel this way, right? Like we can start to bring in some questions of curiosity, to kind of open ourselves up to different possibilities. Right. In our lives. Yeah. I love the curiosity. I use that in my own work as well, but I love how you're like, here we are.
It's very conversational. yes, here we are. I do it with same with thoughts. there's that negative thought. There's that, there again, you know, it's the same as we're talking with that, just conversational curiosity that takes out the judgment. It's like, yeah, we're here again. I know you. I thought I've sat with this thought before. And then what if it could be different? Yeah. And obviously all these things, it's very easily said, right? It's, it's.
Very difficult, especially at the beginning, but it's really powerful as you know from your own work. Yeah. Hey, it is powerful and it is, it is hard, but it's, and I always tell clients we're starting with the observations. We're not change anything right now. It's just observations. It's like you're watching someone else. And when we start to be familiar with those conversations that we're having with ourselves,
You know, every time you step in front of the mirror and you're looking and you're going, there's that pooch or, I wish my hair were whatever. Those are like, I'm saying that a lot. That gets to be the observation. And then you don't have to change any of your own thoughts, right? You get to choose. Is this one serving me? Is this something that I want to continue having this little thought? Do I want to take this with me in the future or do I want to change it?
because we get to have that choice and it doesn't mean it's easy. It just means, okay, so I know every time I step in front of mirror, I complain about my little pooch. So that's how does it make me feel? What makes me feel really crappy? I don't like feeling like that. So how, is this something I wanna shift? And then what could I say instead? And what can I focus on? So for me, I started focusing on the things that I liked about myself.
and be like, there's that thought. but I really like my eyes or, there's that thought. I really like, you know, whatever it is that's coming out that I can point out. I really like my arms. They look really nice today in my tank top, but it's not that balance. And I would love your take on when we are finding ourselves in that really deep spiral of every time I step in from the mirror, I'm saying something negative. Every time I'm comparing myself.
do you balance that that's not overwhelming for somebody? Yeah, I think first of all, really taking the pressure off because even liking ourselves can feel impossible. So it's great if you can stand there and find something that you're liking about yourself. Excellent. But for a lot of people, it's not possible. It's too much of a stretch. So we're going to just even forget you don't have to like anything about what your body looks like. You don't have to love any part of you. You don't even have to love your toe.
Right? Um, so we can just go, okay, this is my body. Um, I was just hearing something this morning that I really loved. It's like, um, you are here to take care of this human. You know, you are your human. Your job is to take care of it. You don't have to love it. You don't have to like it, but it's like you, someone gives you a dog and goes, look, uh, there's no one else. You got to take care of this dog. How are you going to, you know,
It's, I'm going to annoy you sometimes. It's probably going to pee on the carpet while it's still a puppy and just drive you nuts. Right. Right. But you still going to take care of it. And I think that's like with our body too, you know, um, we don't have to love it, but this is what we've got for better or for worse. You know, we, didn't have a choice with the kind of body that we had. And again, I'm saying this very loosely, but I know it's very hard to find that kind of acceptance.
but we don't have a choice. This is the reality. is what we got. Like right now in this very moment, this is what you're left with and this is your human. How would you take care of it? And so it's so far from, have to love what I look like. It's so far away from that. It's just this body allows me to have a life experience without this body. I would not be here.
I would be a soul floating around. I'd be dead, right? I'd be whatever we believe we're somewhere else. so, you know, I, I need to feed it so it stays alive. I need to, well, don't have to, but you could bathe it because that might also feel good and, know, take care of the, the basic health needs like brushing your teeth and, maybe some movement, you know, put clothing on it in winter time when it's cold and these very basic.
things to keep this human, this body going. And let's just bring it down to that and going, okay, I have arms so I can, you know, carry my groceries up the stairs and I can drive my car to go to work or I can type a message to my friend, right? I can turn on the lights. It's so simple. I have my legs. They get me places. It's good. It's handy.
You know, so we can just really focus on those very basic, things that we get to experience only because we have a body without it. would not have these experiences. And I think that can be really freeing because then we're just taking all the pressure away from, have to look this way and, you know, I'm not beautiful enough to do this. And, I'm just disgusting. Look at this, look at that. If we just kind of park all of it.
and go, yeah, yeah, you can find yourself disgusting. It's okay. But how would you take care of this body? This human it's in your care. No one else is going to do it. You got to do it. Right. Yeah. I find that really helpful. can see why. I can just how you're separating out and how even in my answer, there's still that, like, we have to think about the body. And in your answer, you're separating it out into no.
We just have this being to take care of like a dog. You have to feed it, make sure it has water, know, bathe it would be nice. And then you are looking at each part and how it helps you experience this human existence. But it's a way, all of like the visual of how it looks. You're coming to the function of each part of your body.
but there's no message around how it looks. Exactly. yeah, go ahead. And we could, and then once we kind of got that going and that feels doable, of course we can then go a little deeper and go, okay, so every time I'm taking care of this human and every time I look at it, I say something really hurtful to it.
you know, like, hate you and I hate what you look like and you're disgusting, right? So is that really how we would talk to someone we're taking care of? Probably not. So, you know, we might surround ourselves with people who shame us. If we were taking care of this, this human, would we be around people who make us feel really bad about ourselves? Probably not. So then we can go into the nuanced layers of, you know, what else am I?
putting this body, what situations am I putting this body in? What part do I play in its wellbeing? And what shifts can I make around that? That's incredible. Then you're just taking in that layer of the social connections and our environment as we're bringing it in, but we're still removed. We're still as, and I think it is easier to handle and kind of
be on the outside and be able to see things like it's separate. As you were talking, I'm like, I hate you as you're talking to a dog. Like how sad. They said, I hate you to the dog every single day. And you're just separating it out and allowing people to see their body existence as a function. As what is kind of the best like...
You know, they've done the studies around like talking to a plant and you know, the plant thrives. That's right. So, you know, as you're being mean to a plant, it's not going to have the same growth. But if you're talking and singing to it, it's the same that what I'm understanding from you is the same that we're looking at the bodies. How can we literally care for it? But it's not in the judgmental. How does it look? How does it compare? But
This is a functional thing, making sure, I love how you said, put a coat on it in the cold to keep it warm. Like the basic steps of caring for this body. Yes. How that removes all of the judgment that we bring on because it is so ingrained. We are bringing it in. And I think just sort of a little side note here about inner criticism, which, you know, we do, humans just do so well.
Because at some point we've learned that that's going to be very productive. So, you know, if we just beat ourselves up enough, we're probably going to do better next time. But of course there's so much research to prove otherwise that that is, it's the opposite, but it's, it's also, it's, you know, it's very true in the, in the diet world, in the weight control world that if I just
You know, I've just eaten a tub of ice cream. really give them, got to give myself a really hard time. Like you suck, you lose. I can't believe you did this again. You know, like just really putting yourself down so much in an attempt to avoid doing it again. But of course it just, you're always in the spiral and the same then goes with, you know, the more you talk down on yourself and criticize your body, it's not going to motivate you to change your behavior. It does the exact opposite. And there's research showing.
I was just sharing about that on Instagram the other day. There's research showing that if we treat ourselves like a child, like as if we're talking to an animal that needs care, that's where positive change takes place, not in that other realm. So I think that also can be a motivational factor, even if it feels unnatural, because we're not used to talking positively to ourselves and our behaviors.
and understanding and compassionate and with kindness, you know, it's, it's so foreign for so many people, but if we know the outcome will be what we want, if we start to be more compassionate with ourselves, then that can be also a great incentive and go, yeah. Okay. I don't quite believe it yet, but I'm just going to try it because it's there laid out in so many studies, you know, that this is the better approach to get me to, want to, where I want to get to. Right.
I'm just going to try it. I don't believe it, but I'm just going to try it. Exactly. There's something that just off the hook of like, I don't have to buy into this, but there is research. I'm just going to try it and see what happens. So what does it look like? If you care to go there, what does it look like when we're talking to ourselves? Like we'd talk to our younger self or we talk to an animal. How is that shift different than what we typically do?
Again, highly individualistic, of course.
For example, can give an example with a client session I had last week. Someone struggling with or has is in a recovery from anorexia. And so for this particular person, it can sometimes be really overwhelming to decide what to eat. know, this person might open the fridge and go, you know, my go-to would be this, cause it's like my safe option. know, you know, how many calories and
that kind of feels safe, but I probably should eat this. And then just closing the door and just sitting there feeling like, I can't eat anything. And then, you know, the thing of what's wrong with you, you should know better. You've done all this work. Why can't you now get your shit together? Blah, blah, blah. Instead in that moment to go, oh, I'm really struggling right now with making a decision. Okay.
There's obviously a very scared part. know you're afraid right now. I know it feels overwhelming, but we got to eat something because we haven't eaten today and it doesn't even really matter what we eat. Why don't we just go back to the fridge? We just open the door and we reach for the first thing that I set my eyes on. And then maybe from that, first thing I can add a few other things and it doesn't have to be an amazing meal, just some food to take care of this human. Right. So it could be this.
It could be when you're just walking down the street and then all of sudden you're walking past a mirror and you see your reflection and you're getting almost a total shock. I mean, it can be so instant, that it just sets you down in this really full on spiral where you just feel so hopeless and so how could this ever be okay? How will I ever get out of this? I mean, it can be really, really dark, really fast. And you know, then it can be that talk of.
I hate myself. I'm, I look so horrible. How could anyone love me? I'm just so disgusting. I mean, look at this. It's, it's gross. You know, I don't want anyone to see this. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada to go stop.
I am not defined by this form just because right now in this very moment I have these thoughts doesn't mean that they're true. Doesn't mean I have to believe them because there are also other days I see myself and I feel actually okay about myself.
Just because in this very moment, it's really intense. I'm in a wave doesn't mean it's going to be like this forever. I don't have to follow these thoughts where they want to take me. I'm just going to bring it right back to me. Maybe I can just stand for a moment, take a few breaths, come back to my senses. What can I see? What can I hear? What can I smell? Right? These kind of coming out of the head and into our body, into felt sensation. mean, there's so many ways.
when we're in these trigger moments to guide ourselves through with some simple tools. Yeah, that's just a couple of examples. thank you so much for the examples because I think they really helps us see exactly what you're talking about in how kind, it's almost like you have a little kid with you or a little you standing beside.
where you're literally talking it through. And it's not just a positive talk of you're okay, you're gonna be fine, you're good, you've got this. It's not that. It is really talking through, okay, so we're hungry now and you have to eat. And I know it's really hard and overwhelming. And just the rationalization that you're walking through the steps of, okay, we're gonna open the fridge, we're gonna pull something out.
The ability to say just because I'm feeling really intense right now doesn't mean it's going to last forever. That's a difference in how we're talking to ourselves. That's huge shift in this really kind, like you're talking to a little kid, way that you're explaining things. And I love the explanation part as well. It's not a buildup.
It's not, let's talk positive and really say rah rah, let's be a cheerleader. But it's this explanation of what's going on, what you're feeling, what you're seeing, what you can do. And I think that's such a huge shift from what we hear everywhere else in media and everything in like, okay, build yourself up, have your affirmations, tell yourself, you know, all these good things about yourself. This is a different way to really stand beside you.
and walk through whatever you're experiencing. Yes. And I think it's such an important point too, because it's honoring what's there and it's not making things pretend they're not there. And that's, know, some of that parts work, and do our family systems work where we're bringing everyone in, you know, all the different, different parts that we have, they all have something to say and they all want to be heard and they all want to protect us.
And so it's not about, you know, shut up. I'm not interested. It's not going to work because this is going to get louder and louder. So I think acknowledging what's there and going, yes, I heard you. Thank you. We're going to try something different right now. And of course, you know, some of this deeper stuff, you want to work with someone to, have that kind of more deeper support that it might be required, but we can bring that awareness already. And that sense of separation, you know,
That voice that's talking is not you. It's a part of you that has something to say. So that voice in you that's telling you, you are disgusting and ugly and no one is ever going to love you. has something to say, but it's not going to run the show and we can comfort it and we go, yes, thank you. heard you. Thanks so much for your input. I know you're just trying to help, but it's not really helping right now. you know, so there's just, I think where we come in as our sovereign,
adult, higher self person who is aware of all of these parts, but in the end it's up to then us to go, okay, this is how I'm going to handle this because I'm an adult and I can, you know, I have the tools and I have the support and I know how to navigate this and navigate all these different parts and me that are all coming out to be seen and to be heard because probably they've been there from a very young age and they've wanted to have this conversation with you.
And just to add on, know this is sort of maybe going a little side track, but, um, this is that it's such a potent point or the potent moment when we are triggered, when it comes to our weight, because it's in those very moments where a lot of people will just run to a diet or an exercise program.
Right? So they have this experience with their body where they look in the mirror and go, I hate myself. Okay. I need to fix my body because they think the problem is in the body. So then they will distract with focusing. mean, being on a diet is takes a lot of energy and a lot of time and a lot of focus. It's perfect distraction. You know, the perfect distraction from what's actually going on underneath or going to the gym and exercising every day, like crazy. Sorry, not like a crazy person, but with that kind of intense.
You know, energy and like this, I'm going to get this under control. You know, I'm going to fix this problem. I'm going to beat this body into shape. It's kind of that again, all of our focus energy will go there. And we just again, push everything down. Of course, until we crash and burn and binge because we can't control. And then it all comes back. You know, it's just that cycle. Then we want to control again.
Eventually it doesn't work. The old stuff comes up. We want to control again. And then we just find ourselves there for decades. but it's such a, but these moments are such a gift. You know, when we have, when we're in these intense triggered moments, that's the moment to be still, not to do something and go, okay, there's something there. Something is happening right now. Something is trying to come up. Something is trying to be solved. Something is trying to be healed.
And this time I'm going to make a different decision. I'm not going to run into the safe arms of my diet and my exercise program. I'm just going to sit with this and try a different approach so that I can be free from it eventually. And that's, it's so powerful. It's so potent. And that's why I think these, you know, some people call them feeling fat moments. There's so such a gift.
if we take that invitation to go deeper. I love that it's an invitation to go deeper. And I had not thought about it, but you're a hundred percent right. How we get into these moments where we're really down on ourselves and it's that I'm going to go fix it, but the fix, the exercise program, the diet, the, you know, running whatever you want to run forever.
that that is a distraction, that we're never really tuning in to the deep inner hurt or the deep inner thoughts or whatever is going on inside that triggered that fat moment. But we push that aside. We don't look at what actually was the trigger, what's the root cause, what's underneath it. We look to fix. And I'm so guilty of this. And then you run. Of course, same.
Okay, so what new diet program can I do and how much more can I work out? And I mean, I just know in my own like menstrual cycle, I have times of the month that I feel fatter. And like those as I very much watching for cycles and patterns and things in my own life. And I'm like, that's when I start my diets. That's when I start working out. That's when I really push because when I and I know
cognitively, it's bloating. It's other things that are going on with my hormones, but it's like, Ooh, I can't, my twenties were so filled with the diets and the exercising like crazy and the being so hard on myself. But I never thought about it that that was my distraction. So I never had to look at how ugly I felt inside. Yeah. The bandaid. It's just the bandaid that we're putting onto this deep, deep wound.
And it never gets better. It never gets better. Just it keeps surfacing and you band-aid it. And then here it goes, you know, wounded again and you band-aid and the wound up and you just keep this cycle. And you the whole time. Well, and, and also to add that it's normalized in our culture. You feel bad about yourself. You've gained weight. Okay. Off you go. Or you've let yourself go. Well, that's on you. Right? So there's, there's a lot of shaming just
in and of itself without us even doing it. There's a lot of shaming from the outside that, you know, if you are in a bigger body, whatever our each individual definition, definition of that is, you're supposed to want to lose weight. know? Yeah. Yes. That's just expected. And if you just, who are you to just say, I'm okay with who I am. What? No, no, no, not okay. Not okay. No.
even wager like most humans are getting the message they're supposed to lose weight. I have always been a relatively thin person but I have definitely had that message. I am supposed to lose weight. Like if I fluctuate at all I am supposed to lose weight and I could never attain the weight that I should be even though I was incredibly thin at one point. In my mind I still never hit that what I should be. It never matched.
where I was in the mirror and like where I know like when getting ready for my wedding, I was working out like crazy because I'm going to be so fit and look so good. And I had gotten my wedding dress fitting and you know, so they did all the alterations and I had all that by the time I got to my wedding, it's only a couple of weeks different. I'd already lost weight and my wedding dress was big.
And I'm like, and I still looked at my body and like, oh. Which is that what we call is body dysmorphia, right? Where we have a perception of what our body looks like. That's not reality. Uh Uh, and so that's why we, it's never going to be right. Which is also another distraction mechanism. You know, if it's, if, cause if we never get there, then we just keep working at it. Yes.
And I mean, yeah. And the irony of it as well, know, we, as humans, we just love in the story, the beginning, the middle and the end done, right? Like we crave that because I think again, it's predictable. When we've reached the end, everything's safe, everything's fine, but life is just so far from that, you know, there's, it never works this way. And so when we bring this approach as well to our,
weight loss journey, if you will, for the lack of a better word, that we think, okay, I'm here. This is the beginning. I don't like what I look like. Now the middle, I'm dieting. The end, I have my dream body. And then as if, I mean, this is crazy. You know, when I realized this, I'm like, what? Why did I never think about this? Because there isn't going to be an end because my body will change until the day there is no more body and then it'll disintegrate.
So, so exactly. That's the end of the physical body at least. But I mean, this idea, and again, you know, the, the diet culture gets us wrapped up in this and believes it that this is the one, like the one diet that's going to keep your body the same forever. It's ludicrous. so, you know, I think it's helpful to ask the question, okay, so I'm on this diet now and then I've reached my weight loss goal. And then what?
because most of the time the way that we're eating on a diet is really not sustainable. Yes. The way we're exercising is not sustainable, not for the next 30, 40, 50 years. Oh. So what's, what's going to happen? Might be worth asking that question, you know? Absolutely. I wish I knew me in my twenties. We're good friends, but like, um,
I don't know, we would have been very toxic together, think, our own body issues that we've talked about. We would have been really good toxic friends together. And we, just saying that, Anna and I have done a lot of therapy around our own body issues. So at this stage in our life, we can talk about it and laugh about it. But it's such a huge thing, because I never thought about the end. It was always the push and the push and the push and then never quite meeting the goal.
And I look back at pictures of myself, I'm like, dang, good. But I never saw it. That's right. so I never- irony of it all. Right? And like you said, I don't remember if it was before we got on or while we're interviewing, but I never got to enjoy that stage of my life because it was this constant push and constant comparison.
And so I always ahead, right? In the future, you're always, you're never fully present with yourself. You always just, when I get to that point, then I'll relax. Then I'll be happy. Then I'll be loved. mean, again, it's this pipe dream of when I get to this weight, because no one is interested in the weight loss in and of itself. No one cares. It's the good stuff that apparently will come when we reach it. You know, the sense of
accomplishment, a sense of fulfillment, the sense of self acceptance. Finally, I will love myself, you know, which is just the biggest BS of all, because it just doesn't come from there. Not the authentic place, you know, often, because people will tell me, um, and most people that I work with, they've been on a very long cycle of, you know, dieting, gaining weight, losing weight, the whole, the whole lot. Um,
And they will tell me, but Anna, when I lost weight, I felt better. they're confusing the feeling better. It's like a, it's like a high, like a, you know, when you're taking drugs or when you're drunk, like you're like, yeah, I'm so feeling so good. I'm so relaxed or whatever. I'm so much energy. I feel great. I'm on top of the world. Right. But the crash comes and it's the same.
with this, it's not authentic, good feeling. It's not authentic confidence. It's very on the surface. And I think that's really important to distinguish, you know, this feeling of feeling good. It's like when you're stepping on a scale, I don't know if you have any memories of that, but I remember when I would step on a scale and I see the number I desired, you know, it's lower than it was yesterday. I'd just be happy. So happy.
Wow, this is amazing. I feel amazing. So I let this number dictate how I would feel. and same the, if it was the other direction, you know, if it was higher, I'd be devastated and feel horrible. huh. On kilo or half a gram. I don't know what this is in pounds or one pound or half a pound. It's not gonna make you feel differently in your body. No, but so it's just, again, you know, the story we tell ourselves, our mind is so powerful.
So I think just to really be aware, we're chasing the good feeling, but that's not, it's not going to be sustainable, you know, because we can all, we can find ways to feel good and to increase our wellbeing right now in this very moment. They have nothing to do with losing weight. It's very important to distinguish the two, but they've been, of course, again, muddled up in wellness culture and diet culture too. Absolutely.
is being able to pull the two apart. And I think that's really hard. Of course. you're to that enmeshment and not even, I don't know if I really understood what that authentic feeling good was like. It was like these little hits that I can, ooh, I can control this. that tanked me. Ooh, this. But it was all that superficial back and forth instead of being able to find the underlying, this feels good.
And it can be difficult to really separate those out. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's, it's a, it's, it's not going to happen from one day to the next. It definitely is a process. and it takes, a certain type of, I guess, discipline as well, to, I mean, we really, you know, want to cultivate the
inter reception, you know, the way our body communicates with us from the inside, how we're feeling from the inside, a skill as well that so many people are very disconnected from. And I know we've, we've had a conversation about this a few years ago in another, I think at IG live or something like this, I think we did. yeah, yeah, just this, um,
That is obviously a skill that we can relearn. And that is intense and extremely helpful for us to help to connect with our sense of wellbeing that's not connected with weight loss. So yeah, that's maybe another conversation, but there are so many ways and how we can cultivate other habits and yeah, it just bring in other tools to help us to.
not be so tied up in the feeling that we think is the feeling, you know, like the feeling good where we think it comes from. Because then when we have that skill of, you know, interoception, like to give an example, when you need to pee, that's an interoceptive signal or when you're hungry. but it can also be a sense of wellbeing that comes from the inside. and so the more we lean into that and the more we grow that skill,
Then again, we're less, you know, we're less enmeshed with that. need to lose weight in order to have this feeling. Right. We separated out. This causes this. That's right. us this. And we do that in so many areas of her life. Of course, of course. If I finally get the income, then I will get and feel this way. If I finally get the job, if I have, you know, the husband or a partner and 2.5 kids or whatever.
that's going to finally make me happy. Like this is our society and how we have molded, been molded, learned to see life, but it is tapping down into what authentically and what does happiness feel like? I had to learn that. Cause I was so disassociated with my body that like hunger cues were like, you know, like.
Okay, it's time to eat, but am I really hungry? I'm not sure. There was so much, there was a lot messed up there, but it's looking at like, what does happiness feel like? What does that joy actually feel like in my body and tuning back in? Because I think so many of us have messed with our bladder sensations. As a pelvic therapist, I saw this so often. I they hold, our urine so long that it's turned off the, I have to go.
And so we don't even realize we have to go. I see this a lot with kiddos. And we do the same thing with hunger when we're ignoring and turning down those cues that we lose track of all of these, this sensations inside of our own body, because we've just turned off the internal, really focused on the external and the control and it's tuning back in. And it does take some,
work that you're going to spend, you know, some dedication to re-figuring out you. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And to find again the safety in our body, right? Because for a lot of people feeling that sensation wasn't safe for a really long time. Um, and even just the simple, simple sensation of hunger might feel really unsafe because if you're hungry, means you're going to eat eventually and then you might get fat.
gain weight and that feels really unsafe. So, you know, it's also around, okay, I'm hungry. I'm going to eat. I might gain some weight. My body might change, you know, and then that's my invitation to deal with whatever that brings up. so yeah, that's the safety piece, you know, to, come back home to our bodies and whatever we're feeling to go, okay, it's safe. again, my
need a therapist for some extra support for that, obviously. But yeah, I think that's, it's so crucial in, in eating disorder recovery. But also just living in this world. Yeah. And I appreciate you saying that because yes, I think if you're feeling like you need support, get support from a therapist who is specializing in and around our bodies, if you're struggling with eating disorder or
disordered eating or wherever you are, or just living in society that puts so much pressure and maybe it's not to the eating disorder or disordered eating stage, but you're still struggling with it. It's still making you feel yucky. Yeah. that's, and that's a really important point that you just made. You know, we might have our clinical eating disorders like anorexia, bulimia on either end of the spectrum.
But there's a whole gray area between those two extremes where a lot of people find themselves. And just because someone hasn't been diagnosed with an eating disorder doesn't mean you're not allowed to reach out for help. You know, I think that you can always like, if you, if you're wondering, do I have a problem with food? You know, if I always say, if you're thinking about food up to between 80 and 95 or a hundred percent of their day,
chances are pretty high. We're not meant to think about that so much. Or if you're having these reoccurring thoughts about your body, if you're constantly trying to lose weight, if you're jumping from diet to diet, and even if it's not called a diet, if it's just healthy eating or eating everything in moderation, or, you know, trying out this new protocol, or I'm doing this fast and this cleanse and this detox over and over and over again, it might be worth getting some support and looking at what's going on and as to...
is this your coping strategy? Is this your bandaid and what's lying underneath? So that, you know, essentially we would love to come to a place where A, we intuitively know what to eat and we will follow that intuitive feeling. Meaning we don't control it. We don't say, no, I already ate, I ate two hours ago, so I shouldn't eat again or well I ate
a cookie, at 1 PM. So I'm not allowed to have a cookie at 7 PM or, no, it's 6 PM. I'm not allowed to eat after 6 PM. no, it's 7 AM. I'm not allowed to eat until 10 AM. Right? So there's all these rules that can, feel like it's healthy or, but you know, if I always say, if you're not sure, just eat a piece of chocolate at 8 AM and see what it does to you. Cause if you freaking out about it, chances are high or
Don't exercise for a whole week and see how that makes you feel, right? Like these things are really good indicators. You're just bringing out my 20 year old self. she's like, no, 40 year old me is fine with it. 20 year old, no. But, and I have done, like I said before, a lot of therapy to get here. And there's no shame in that. There really is like, it's just getting curious about your thought processes and what-
in the amount of rules that come in. And if you're in that very structured rule oriented place, it's not a fun place to live. No, you can't eat that and you're yes. And so just if you don't want to live in this rigid, non-fun place, that can be a time to reach out and talk to somebody. And it doesn't mean that you have a significant eating disorder. It just a healthier way to interact with your body. And I think
to add onto that, how we are in relationship to food is usually how we are in relationship to life in general. So if we are really rigid with our eating, it's probably that we're also really rigid in other areas in our lives, that we're denying ourselves pleasure and joy and playfulness and flexibility, that we can't just go.
let's just do this. feel like doing this. No, it has to be scheduled. It has to be planned. And then from this kind of rigidity and you know, it's a highly stressful environment for our body. We might also deal with digestive, digestive issues or skin issues or insomnia or hair loss or chronic pain, right? So there's, I think, yeah, we can look at how we are with food as a way to also look at other areas in our lives and go, okay. I see a pattern here.
And the question always is, you know, is this negatively impacting my life? Am I happy? Am I fulfilled? Are the primary relationships in my life happy and fulfilled and functional? Because obviously how we are also impacts our significant other, children, our parents, or whoever we spend time with. So yeah, some big questions to ask oneself. Big questions. you're, I love.
just broadening our view and this is a pattern in how we're handling our food. It's probably a pattern in how you're handling. Yes, check, check, check. You could read my brain. It's because you've lived it with me. That's right. We've both been there and it is such a, there is so much freedom.
in being able to live without those restrictions, both in life and with food, but it is scary as you progress. It's scary giving up those rules. It's scary giving up the restrictive like boundaries in your life that it's like, Ooh, if I have this, I can control and I can predict is what goes on in my brain if I have this rigidity. And I know I still have, when I get super stressed that like,
I want to control everything. I'm aware of it and I see it and I recognize it, but it still pops up even after years of therapy. But it's now something like you're talking to, I can talk to myself around it. I can recognize, here we go again. I know you. Here's this little rigidity thing that comes out, because I must be super stressed because that's often my first indicator that I am stressed.
is that I'm starting to control everything. But if my husband's chopping vegetables, he's doing it wrong. I'm like, ooh, let's get curious about that because that's telling me I'm really stressed. If I I'm wanting to go back and fix how he did his vegetables. Instead of typical me is like, great, he's cooking dinner. They're shift and being aware of those inside of ourselves. And that I'm...
I don't know if that will ever go away where, those are some of my coping mechanisms. Those are things that got me through life and helped me get to where I am today. So yay, thank you. But I don't have to have them go away. I get to look at, this is not necessarily functional. And this is a symptom that tells me there's something deeper going on. This is a symptom saying, okay, you're really stressed right now. So let's look at the stress and just kind of like let go of, or go in and.
continue chopping the vegetables, whatever I need in the moment, but let's look at the stress, let's pivot. I think as you talk about beginning, middle and end, when we're looking at our eating habits, like diet coming in or trying to hit weight loss or even trying to heal, we're gonna have a beginning, middle and end and we won't. Looking at limiting beliefs or traumas that we've experienced, we're looking at, want, okay, this is the beginning, this is the middle.
And this is the end where I'm all done with it. I will never have to deal with this again. And I don't think that's realistic. I love how you reframe that because it's like, there's no end. It is continuing in our life until we are no longer in this life. so much goodness that you just shared. And I love the, you know, what you said around, I'm just using that, using
my control coming up as an indication that something else is going on. So in a way it's a gift, right? Absolutely. We can reframe and go, here's this thing again. what a pain. go, it's like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Hello. Hello. Right. It's so powerful. can go, okay, this is happening. It's like sometimes we, know, with chronic pain, for example, when we have a flare up.
Instead of going, what's wrong with my body? can go, no, no, what's going on in my life? Cause my body's telling me something, right? It's it's a similar thing that we just use that, rather than getting annoyed at it go, no, but it's here to help. It's here to show me something. It's here to shine a light on something. So that's amazing. And I think the other thing to add on is yeah, some of these coping strategies, and even our,
part of maybe of our personality, you know, if we were like the type A perfectionist personality, that'll never go away, but we can, um, we can be aware and we don't have to act on it. And I think that's the difference. You know, people want to get rid of these things, but they might, we might not get rid of it. It's all might always be that little voice in your, in your head, but you're the, in the driver's seat, right there in the back seat and you go, yes, yes. Hi, here you are. Okay. You're coming with me, I guess, but I'm turning left, even though you want to turn right, you know? So I think.
It's great to just again, be in that space of I'm allowing, but I'm the one calling the shots. I don't have to act on it. I love that because that little control freak that comes out, I don't act on it all the time. I do. But it's the same. Yeah. And it's the same just to add with when it comes to eating disorders, for example, um, you know, when I was in recovery,
I didn't, I think I didn't eat bread or carbs probably for five or six years. had a, an extreme phobia of bread and gluten. had a very big fear of anything processed, anything carbohydrates. So I just had this thing about bread. Um, and so part of my recovery was eating bread again. And you know, it was terrifying. Um, so I made myself eat bread every day and it was really hard. So I had the fear.
I had all the voices, but I didn't act on them anymore until now I eat bread every day. It's, nothing, you know, it's not even the thing. Right. that simple process doesn't pop up anymore. That's right. So, um, but I had to come along for the ride for a while, but it didn't mean I had to act on it still like I did for a really long time. Right. Yeah. It's an incredible.
Oh my goodness. Okay. Is there anything else that you would like to share before we are done? I think I've been thinking about this over the last weeks and it kind of goes along the lines of what we just now talked about. And I started hearing this analogy. I can't remember. I can't give credit. I can't remember who said it, but
was this, I think it may be an old Chinese saying, or maybe it was her Chinese grandfather who'd said it. But basically if you, grab a handful of grains of, of, rice, and if you're holding them in your hand, the more you squeeze, the more rice you will lose. Whereas if you just open up your palm, the rice will stay. Right. And it kind of goes along with this.
wearing things loosely, which is also something that I've picked up recently. It's the same kind of analogy where instead of being so, you know, I got to get to this weight. I got to have the perfect diet to be healthy forever. It's kind of this real, it's tense. It's intense. And chances are we're losing all the rice as in we're losing all of our
health, know, ironically, you know, we're more stressed, we're more contracted inside. we're not, we don't have a good quality of life. So, you know, how can we wear everything more loosely rather than taking it so seriously? So you've gained weight. Okay. I don't particularly like how I look. Okay. How can I wear that loosely rather than going straight again into this contraction, you know, of wanting to control and change.
I think it's such a powerful way and maybe a support for anyone who's listening, who's finding themselves in that place. Just go, okay. How important is it really? Can I let go just a little, you know, in my rigidity with food, with exercise, how I treat my body, how I speak to myself, where in those areas can I wear it more loosely? So that's been really helpful for me and some of my clients. So I thought I'll share it here too.
Thank you so much. love them because I can just see like where I am clenching things with my fist and where I am just holding things in my palm. And there, mean, that visual is just so powerful for me. Okay. So can I just open my fingers just a little bit? So, you know, I don't have the nail marks in my palm anymore. Allowing maybe I'm not going to get to loose palm, but maybe I can release just a little bit. Yeah. That's right. Maybe I can get to that open palm.
but it doesn't have to be right now. And I think that is such an incredible visual. Thank you so much. Well, thank you to, I wish I'd remembered the name, but it's gone, but thank you to whoever shared. words. I want to thank you so much for this conversation. It was incredible.
What is the best way for our listeners to connect with you if they would like to connect with you? So probably the best way is via Instagram and just sending me a DM if they want to learn more. And they on my page, they'll get a bit of an idea as well of my approach and how I work with people. at the moment I'm just working one-on-one with people.
Um, so yeah, if anyone's interested, also offer, you know, just a free intro call just to get a bit of an idea for a good fit. Um, just to hear more about what they're dealing with and how I can best support them. So Instagram, Instagram is the best spot. And what is your Instagram handle?
It's just at I am Anna Surrey, which is my surname. and maybe you'll, you'll pop it in. You probably put my, my full name so people will, will be able to see how to spell it. I will put everything down in the show notes so that you can just jump down to the show notes and have all of easy access to Anna. She's incredible. I really invite people to hop over.
and check out your Instagram profile because there's a wealth of information and ideas and thoughts. It's just a lovely place to be. So thank you. Thank you so much for joining me. This has been an incredible conversation. Yeah, I've been really enjoying it. I knew I would, but there you go. Like you said, we could just keep going. It's such a fascinating topic.
Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Landy Peek (1:05:43)
Hey, before you go, just a little bit of legal. This podcast is designed for educational purposes only. It is not to replace any expert advice from your doctors, therapists, coaches, or any other professional that you would work with. It's just a chat with a friend, me, where we get curious about ideas, thoughts, and things that are going on in our lives. And as we're talking about friends, if you know someone who would benefit from the conversation today, please share.
Because I think the more that we open up these conversations, the more benefit we all get. So until next time, give yourself a big hug from me and stay curious because that's the fun in this world.
